From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from wp441.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp441.webpack.hosteurope.de [80.237.133.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D91532C190; Mon, 13 May 2024 17:34:42 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=80.237.133.210 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1715621684; cv=none; b=hKcYx+Q6ItgkVqHOpuhsURyAPdR3S7txUCK/j1Yy/zBwS30ZUmE0xYrqkK+al1ekOtdVTeMi32Dv3qKnQ7a9yljyS1NXtQRQouQTAgePOCVh8IVPvpWbP17VklOMow75FT8PgF6grdCNWa9PvZpZ+vDwCDSnDzKhUkgXwKVui4Q= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1715621684; c=relaxed/simple; bh=RjuB/bZTODZJ0KhRm7Wf7eYTPm6izVl1WgnIq448cKw=; h=Message-Id:Subject:To:Date:Cc:In-Reply-To:From:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=mQ1aeSHU8YjEQjWd3GQk1137fFHOso+WFBNExS+bPmyL/FGGpM7e+PPRlZDkXiXhrlPShkl9LjEbzX5GLOTvnrPtY6jr+aY/Gt0RxEFi8fcWQRpglCmBxAadoipkyJgQo61xhDhZB+OaCDbb5xm8xHh5G2mI/Edttccuy9CObe8= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=ulrich-teichert.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ulrich-teichert.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ulrich-teichert.org header.i=@ulrich-teichert.org header.b=mOlOjyy9; arc=none smtp.client-ip=80.237.133.210 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=ulrich-teichert.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ulrich-teichert.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ulrich-teichert.org header.i=@ulrich-teichert.org header.b="mOlOjyy9" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ulrich-teichert.org; s=he219537; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:From:In-Reply-To:Cc:Date:To:Subject:Message-Id:From:Sender: Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:In-Reply-To: References; bh=HTaf2Q1Js0w1JEG7adnW654h8ouqk/EoSw1gVBmO+yU=; t=1715621683; x=1716053683; b=mOlOjyy95u9CBBZm+rH+6W3dbYAsyHGwOHDas++2n9K8JX3Nfx1gXH5MJk/Go R5Cpat9HplezFVRnvybxkhA0QEmQBpWy6/FlhXhHeOXnxaLPmY9U4rYOpqBvD7LvkY2MCoTDKsFw7 ecj0aOI+agl7XPkfo8WB6cWXkQusz5ke0rLXmM0if6DrMsojJyZeh9LOGznmnPF/5WUvaLxJuMT3f JIL2Mdgf9SpZt46mfMepPjk1DBuMY8w89q2X0lAC8bFpfQV3uvbo8awamNQgVlsDt8znV9QMlZUdf /NT+fnL0OuBJp3OTHd+V0WjkwnAjrKA72Ts3ed6W2zMVdxk9iA==; Received: from [2a03:7846:b79f:101:21c:c4ff:fe1f:fd93] (helo=valdese.nms-ulrich-teichert.org); authenticated by wp441.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) id 1s6YuY-0005eL-4Z; Mon, 13 May 2024 18:52:26 +0200 Received: from valdese.nms-ulrich-teichert.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by valdese.nms-ulrich-teichert.org (8.15.2/8.15.2/Debian-14~deb10u1) with ESMTPS id 44DGqNBm007654 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 13 May 2024 18:52:23 +0200 Received: (from ut@localhost) by valdese.nms-ulrich-teichert.org (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 44DGqMjs007653; Mon, 13 May 2024 18:52:22 +0200 Message-Id: <202405131652.44DGqMjs007653@valdese.nms-ulrich-teichert.org> Subject: Re: [GIT PULL] alpha: cleanups and build fixes for 6.10 To: akiyks@gmail.com (Akira Yokosawa) Date: Mon, 13 May 2024 18:52:22 +0200 (CEST) Cc: paulmck@kernel.org, arnd@arndb.de, glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de, ink@jurassic.park.msu.ru, linux-alpha@vger.kernel.org, linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, mattst88@gmail.com, richard.henderson@linaro.org, torvalds@linux-foundation.org, viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk, krypton@ulrich-teichert.org (Ulrich Teichert), akiyks@gmail.com (Akira Yokosawa) In-Reply-To: <99765904-3f35-4c78-998e-b444a6ab90e4@gmail.com> From: Ulrich Teichert X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL8] Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de;ut@ulrich-teichert.org;1715621683;92f8b63b; X-HE-SMSGID: 1s6YuY-0005eL-4Z Hi, > On Sun, 12 May 2024 07:44:25 -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote: > > On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 08:02:59AM +0200, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote: > >> On Sat, 2024-05-11 at 18:26 -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote: > >> > And that breaks things because it can clobber concurrent stores to > >> > other bytes in that enclosing machine word. > >> > >> But pre-EV56 Alpha has always been like this. What makes it broken > >> all of a sudden? > > > > I doubt if it was sudden. Putting concurrently (but rarely) accessed > > small-value quantities into single bytes is a very natural thing to do, > > and I bet that there are quite a few places in the kernel where exactly > > this happens. I happen to know of a specific instance that went into > > mainline about two years ago. > > > > So why didn't the people running current mainline on pre-EV56 Alpha > > systems notice? One possibility is that they are upgrading their > > kernels only occasionally. Another possibility is that they are seeing > > the failures, but are not tracing the obtuse failure modes back to the > > change(s) in question. Yet another possibility is that the resulting > > failures are very low probability, with mean times to failure that are > > so long that you won't notice anything on a single system. > > Another possibility is that the Jensen system was booted into uni processer > mode. Looking at the early boot log [1] provided by Ulrich (+CCed) back in > Sept. 2021, I see the following by running "grep -i cpu": > > >> > [1] https://marc.info/?l=linux-alpha&m=163265555616841&w=2 > > [ 0.000000] Memory: 90256K/131072K available (8897K kernel code, 9499K rwdata, \ > 2704K rodata, 312K init, 437K bss, 40816K reserved, 0K cma-reserved) [ 0.000000] \ > random: get_random_u64 called from __kmem_cache_create+0x54/0x600 with crng_init=0 [ \ > 0.000000] SLUB: HWalign=64, Order=0-3, MinObjects=0, CPUs=1, Nodes=1 [ 0.000000] > ^^^^^^ > > Without any concurrent atomic updates, the "broken" atomic accesses won't > matter, I guess. I've probably disabled SMP in my test kernel, the jensen is a single CPU system. I never had the pleasure of owning an AlphaServer 2000 or 2100, which (according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaServer and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaStation) are the only systems with EV4/EV45/EV5 multi-CPU setups (apart from the Cray T3{DE}), so the possibility of ever seeing an error concerning atomic concurrent updates is quite low. Anybody out there with an AlphaServer 2000/2100 willing to try ?-) CU, Uli -- Dipl. Inf. Ulrich Teichert|e-mail: Ulrich.Teichert@gmx.de | Listening to: Stormweg 24 |The Hives: Two Kinds Of Trouble, The Chats: 6L GTR, 24539 Neumuenster, Germany|La Fraction: Les Démons, Nightwatchers: On a Mission