From: "Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult" <lkml@metux.net>
To: Thiago Macieira <thiago.macieira@intel.com>,
Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
Cc: fweimer@redhat.com, hjl.tools@gmail.com,
libc-alpha@sourceware.org, linux-api@vger.kernel.org,
linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, x86@kernel.org
Subject: Re: x86 CPU features detection for applications (and AMX)
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 09:35:20 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <ccd3680a-72bf-eaa9-20ae-56fccfbca8ad@metux.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4315452.lxGN7TsiT6@tjmaciei-mobl1>
On 30.06.21 17:36, Thiago Macieira wrote:
Hi,
>> Does anyone here know why they designed this as inline operations ? This
>> thing seems to be pretty much what typical TPUs are doing (or a subset
>> of it). Why not just adding a TPU next to the CPU on the same chip ?
>
> To be clear: this is a SW ABI. It has nothing to do the presence or absence of
> other processing units in the system.
Well, if I'm correct, it's needed because there is some additional unit
whose state need to be saved. And that again necessary, because this
unit is controlled directly by the usual CPU instruction stream (in
contrast to separately programmed devices like a gpu, sdma, etc).
> The moment you receive a Unix signal with SA_SIGINFO, the mcontext state needs
> to be saved somewhere. Where would you save it? Please remember that:
>
> - signal handlers can be called at any point in the execution, including
> in the middle of malloc()
> - signal handlers can longjmp out of the handler back into non-handler code
> - in a multithreaded application, each thread can be handling a signal
> simultaneously
Yes, the last part seems to be the most tricky point.
If we were only talking about kernel controlled context switches (task
switches) and sighandler always return to the kernel, then the kernel
could handle that all internally, w/o userland never knowing it. But
unfortunately that's not the case :(
>>> Userspace will have to do something like:
>>> - check CPUID, if !AMX -> fail
>>> - issue prctl(), if error -> fail
>>> - issue XGETBV and check the AMX bit it set, if not -> fail
>>
>> Can't we to this just by prctl() call ?
>> IOW: ask the kernel, who gonna say yes or no.
>
> That's possible. The kernel can't enable an AMX state on a system without AMX.
Good, that could at least make the API somewhat simpler.
>>> - request the signal stack size / spawn threads
>>
>> Signal stack is separate from the usual stack, right ?
>> Why can't this all be done in one shot ?
>
> Yes, we're talking about the sigaltstack() call.
>
> What is "this all" in the sentence above?
Taking care of big large enough signal stack along with enabling AMX in
one shot. This might not support all kind of uses of sigaltstack(), but
do really need to support that all ?
IMHO, the whole AMX issue is just for *new* software (and I haven't seen
practical use of alternative sighandler stack for aeons), so it's not
about compatibility to existing software. Theoretically we could declare
the combination AMX and sigaltstack() just isn't supported. (Of course,
some combinations of using old libraries might break - but even if old
library code is reused, it's still new software).
Maybe not a completely satisfying idea, but perhaps something that's
much easier to achieve and gets the actual problem solved.
--mtx
--
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Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
Free software and Linux embedded engineering
info@metux.net -- +49-151-27565287
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-07-01 7:35 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 35+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-06-23 15:04 x86 CPU features detection for applications (and AMX) Florian Weimer
2021-06-23 15:32 ` Dave Hansen
2021-07-08 6:05 ` Florian Weimer
2021-07-08 14:19 ` Dave Hansen
2021-07-08 14:31 ` Florian Weimer
2021-07-08 14:36 ` Dave Hansen
2021-07-08 14:41 ` Florian Weimer
2021-06-25 23:31 ` Thiago Macieira
2021-06-28 12:40 ` Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
2021-06-28 13:20 ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-06-30 12:50 ` Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
2021-06-30 15:36 ` Thiago Macieira
2021-07-01 7:35 ` Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult [this message]
2021-06-28 15:08 ` Thiago Macieira
2021-06-28 15:27 ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-06-28 16:13 ` Thiago Macieira
2021-06-28 17:11 ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-06-28 17:23 ` Thiago Macieira
2021-06-28 19:08 ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-06-28 19:26 ` Thiago Macieira
2021-06-28 17:43 ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-06-28 19:05 ` Thiago Macieira
2021-06-30 14:32 ` Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
2021-06-30 14:34 ` Florian Weimer
2021-06-30 15:16 ` Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
2021-06-30 15:38 ` Florian Weimer
2021-07-01 8:08 ` Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
2021-07-01 8:21 ` Florian Weimer
2021-07-01 11:59 ` Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
2021-07-06 12:57 ` Florian Weimer
2021-06-30 15:29 ` Thiago Macieira
2021-07-01 11:57 ` Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
2021-07-08 7:08 ` Florian Weimer
2021-07-08 15:13 ` Thiago Macieira
2021-07-08 17:56 ` Mark Brown
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