From: Thorsten Leemhuis <linux@leemhuis.info>
To: Konstantin Ryabitsev <konstantin@linuxfoundation.org>
Cc: "Artem S. Tashkinov" <aros@gmx.com>,
workflows@vger.kernel.org, LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
Greg KH <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
"regressions@lists.linux.dev" <regressions@lists.linux.dev>,
ksummit@lists.linux.dev
Subject: Re: Planned changes for bugzilla.kernel.org to reduce the "Bugzilla blues"
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2022 13:33:53 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <05d149a0-e3de-8b09-ecc0-3ea73e080be3@leemhuis.info> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <aa876027-1038-3e4a-b16a-c144f674c0b0@leemhuis.info>
[resent with the right ksummit list in CC]
On 29.09.22 13:19, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote:
> Hi!
>
> TLDR: Core Linux kernel developers are unhappy with the state of
> bugzilla.kernel.org; to improve things I plan to change a few important
> aspects of its configuration, unless somebody comes up with better ideas
> to tackle current problems: (1) Create a catch-all product making it
> totally obvious to submitters that likely nobody will look into the
> ticket. (2) Remove or hide all products & components where the subsystem
> didn't fully commit to look into newly submitted reports. (3) Change the
> text on the front page to make it clear that most kernel bug reports
> need to be sent by mail.
>
> I recently brought the state of bugzilla.kernel.org up for discussion on
> the kernel summit and the kernel maintainers summit in sessions about my
> regression tracking efforts. Long story short and rough: in both
> sessions attendees were quite unhappy about the current state and wanted
> things to change for the better. As I brought that topic up, I guess I
> have to get things rolling now.
>
> But before getting into the details, a quick & rough reminder about the
> current state of bugzilla.kernel.org:
>
> * The server and the software running on it are well maintained by the
> the infrastructure team (Konstantin et al.); many thx for this!
>
> * Products, components, default assignees, et al. OTOH are heavily
> outdated, incomplete, or wrong: maintaining this is not the job of the
> infrastructure team and nobody else has stepped up to take care of this
> (for a few more details see:
> https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20220420163223.kz32qomzj3y4hjj5@nitro.local/).
>
> * To the best of my knowledge bugzilla.kernel.org was never really
> sanctioned as the official place to report all sorts of kernel bugs:
> only 20 (most of them from the area of ACPI/PM and PCI) out of ~2500
> entries in MAINTAINERS currently tell users to report issues there; most
> other subsystems just mention email contacts, a few (like the DRM
> developers) point reporters to external bugtrackers.
>
> * Developers of subsystems committed to the bug-tracker afaics usually
> react to reports submitted in bugzilla.kernel.org. A few other
> developers & subsystems keep an eye on reports, too; some do this
> directly, others rely on bugzilla forwarding reports for certain
> products/components by mail to the subsystem's mailing list. Quite some
> or a lot of tickets are not forwarded to any developer or mailing list
> at all.
>
> * In the end lots of bug and regression reports (even good ones!) never
> get a reply from a developer, as a brief analysis of mine showed
> (https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/6808cd17-b48c-657d-de60-ef9d8bfa151e@leemhuis.info/
> ). I at least currently try to work a bit against this by briefly
> looking at each new report and forwarding any by mail that looks like a
> regression worth forwarding (I ignore everything else). Artem S.
> Tashkinov also looks into some (all?) reports and tries to help reporters.
>
> The sessions on kernel summit and the kernel maintainers summit
> discussed the current state only for a few minutes. It's hard to
> summarize these discussions, but let me try to mention the aspects that
> are important for now:
>
> * In both sessions members of the audience seemed pretty unhappy to me
> about the current state of things.
>
> * In the kernel summit sessions (recording:
> https://youtu.be/e2SZoUPhDRg?t=5370 ) Len Brown stated that he and
> fellow ACPI/PM developers rely on bugzilla.kernel.org and would need
> some replacement if it's decommissioned.
>
> * On the maintainers summit (see the last section of
> https://lwn.net/Articles/908324/ for a brief write-up that coined the
> term "Bugzilla blues") someone brought up the upstream development of
> bugzilla the software seems to be dead; there was not even one strong
> advocate for bugzilla.kernel.org and the general vibe tented into the
> direction of "let's get rid of it". But it was also mentioned that
> bugzilla.kernel.org does something useful which will need a replacement:
> a place where reporters can upload big files needed for debugging problems.
>
> In the end that made me settle on this plan of action:
>
> 1. Finding a replacement for bugzilla will take a while, so for now
> let's try to reduce some of its aspects that are bothering people:
>
> 1a. Create a new product/component that can act as a catch-all bug,
> but makes it pretty clear that nobody might see the report because it's
> not forwarded to anyone. People can use it to upload files for debugging
> and link to them in mailed reports. People unable or unwilling to report
> issues my mail (see 1c) could use it to submit issues, too. The outcome
> then is the same as before, but at least people were told upfront about
> the likely outcome; it also gives users a chance to help each other or
> to coordinate before properly reporting an issue.
>
> 1b. Go through the list of products and components and hide or remove
> *all* where the subsystem didn't fully commit to look into newly
> submitted reports. Minimum requirements to remain listed will be along
> these lines: subsystem mentions bugzilla.kernel.org in MAINTAINERS or a
> developer listed in MAINTAINERS is one of the default assignees in
> bugzilla. Subsystems where bugzilla forwards mails to a mailing list can
> remain listed as well, if the recent history shows the developers look
> into newly filed bugs. I'll use my best judgment in the transition
> process and will file "anyone listening?" bugs if in a doubt.
>
> 1c. Make it obvious on the front-page of bugzilla.kernel.org that most
> kernel developers want bug reports to be submitted by mail; mention the
> subsystems that accept reports there and point to the catch-all bug (see
> 1a) as a last straw.
>
> 2. See if everybody is happy with the new state for the time being; if
> not further fine-tune things or speed up step (3).
>
> 3. Work out what we want as replacement.
>
> Anyone any comments on this or helpful ideas how to make things even
> better? Otherwise, I'll in a week or two get down and start working on
> realizing the points listed under step (1).
>
> Ciao, Thorsten
next parent reply other threads:[~2022-09-29 11:33 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 155+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <aa876027-1038-3e4a-b16a-c144f674c0b0@leemhuis.info>
2022-09-29 11:33 ` Thorsten Leemhuis [this message]
2022-09-29 12:22 ` Planned changes for bugzilla.kernel.org to reduce the "Bugzilla blues" Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-09-29 12:52 ` Greg KH
2022-09-29 13:09 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-09-29 13:21 ` Greg KH
2022-09-29 13:23 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2022-09-29 13:04 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2022-09-29 13:31 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-09-29 13:43 ` Greg KH
2022-09-29 13:53 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2022-09-29 14:22 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-09-29 14:54 ` Slade Watkins
2022-09-29 16:42 ` Laurent Pinchart
2022-09-29 19:00 ` Slade Watkins
2022-09-30 9:35 ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2022-09-30 13:23 ` Laurent Pinchart
2022-09-30 16:19 ` Bird, Tim
2022-09-30 16:34 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-09-30 16:47 ` Laurent Pinchart
2022-10-01 1:18 ` Theodore Ts'o
2022-10-01 2:47 ` Slade Watkins
2022-10-01 7:57 ` Bagas Sanjaya
2022-10-01 13:01 ` Theodore Ts'o
2022-10-03 6:55 ` Christoph Hellwig
2022-09-30 17:36 ` Slade Watkins
2022-09-30 16:36 ` Laurent Pinchart
2022-09-30 17:28 ` Luck, Tony
2022-09-30 17:49 ` Slade Watkins
2022-09-30 20:04 ` Randy Dunlap
2022-09-30 20:29 ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2022-09-29 15:31 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2022-09-29 15:39 ` Slade Watkins
2022-09-29 16:06 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-09-29 20:26 ` Slade Watkins
2022-09-30 8:47 ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2022-09-30 9:03 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-09-30 10:37 ` Slade Watkins
2022-09-30 15:32 ` Laurent Pinchart
2022-10-03 11:44 ` Jani Nikula
2022-09-29 15:26 ` James Bottomley
2022-09-30 8:52 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-09-29 13:47 ` Steven Rostedt
2022-09-29 14:02 ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2022-09-29 14:12 ` Steven Rostedt
2022-10-01 10:30 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-01 10:39 ` Greg KH
2022-10-01 10:47 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-01 10:57 ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2022-10-01 11:21 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-01 11:34 ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2022-10-01 13:07 ` Theodore Ts'o
2022-10-01 14:58 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-02 12:18 ` Theodore Ts'o
2022-10-02 12:49 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-02 14:35 ` Greg KH
2022-10-02 19:27 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-02 20:46 ` Linus Torvalds
2022-10-02 20:56 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-02 21:07 ` Linus Torvalds
2022-10-02 21:27 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-02 21:40 ` Willy Tarreau
2022-10-02 21:57 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-02 14:48 ` Slade Watkins
2022-10-02 19:37 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-02 21:11 ` Laurent Pinchart
2022-10-02 21:38 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-02 15:05 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2022-10-02 19:43 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-02 20:54 ` Willy Tarreau
2022-10-02 21:07 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-02 21:32 ` Willy Tarreau
2022-10-02 21:53 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-03 6:37 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-10-03 7:49 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-03 10:04 ` Willy Tarreau
2022-10-02 15:56 ` Al Viro
2022-10-02 17:22 ` Slade Watkins
2022-10-02 16:08 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-10-02 16:10 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-10-02 16:32 ` Joe Perches
2022-10-02 18:56 ` Joe Perches
2022-10-02 19:46 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-02 17:57 ` Willy Tarreau
2022-10-02 19:55 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-02 20:40 ` Willy Tarreau
2022-10-02 18:13 ` Steven Rostedt
2022-10-02 20:14 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-02 22:08 ` Steven Rostedt
2022-10-02 22:20 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-02 22:28 ` Steven Rostedt
2022-10-02 23:04 ` Al Viro
2022-10-02 23:21 ` Steven Rostedt
2022-10-03 7:41 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-03 8:55 ` Mike Rapoport
2022-10-03 9:15 ` David Laight
2022-10-03 9:16 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-03 9:26 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-10-03 9:40 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-03 10:26 ` Mike Rapoport
2022-10-03 14:20 ` Steven Rostedt
2022-10-03 18:24 ` Al Viro
2022-10-03 19:07 ` Steven Rostedt
2022-10-03 20:28 ` Slade Watkins
2022-10-04 12:16 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-04 12:32 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-10-04 22:45 ` Steven Rostedt
2022-10-03 14:22 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2022-10-04 12:21 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-04 14:20 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2022-10-03 15:37 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2022-10-04 7:37 ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2022-10-04 7:56 ` Conor Dooley
2022-10-04 12:24 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-04 14:48 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2022-10-02 20:41 ` Slade Watkins
2022-10-02 20:52 ` Slade Watkins
2022-10-02 21:06 ` Laurent Pinchart
2022-10-02 22:18 ` Steven Rostedt
2022-10-02 22:41 ` Laurent Pinchart
2022-10-02 23:59 ` Slade Watkins
2022-10-02 18:17 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-10-02 20:17 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-02 20:48 ` Willy Tarreau
2022-10-02 19:59 ` Laurent Pinchart
2022-10-02 20:19 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-02 20:26 ` Laurent Pinchart
2022-10-02 13:25 ` Slade Watkins
2022-10-02 9:03 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-10-02 9:06 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-02 9:25 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-10-02 7:37 ` Takashi Iwai
2022-10-02 8:23 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2022-10-02 8:53 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-10-02 9:14 ` Takashi Iwai
2022-10-03 10:10 ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2022-10-03 11:18 ` Slade Watkins
2022-10-03 12:59 ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2022-10-03 15:26 ` Steven Rostedt
2022-10-03 15:44 ` Laurent Pinchart
2022-10-03 15:51 ` Steven Rostedt
2022-10-03 15:59 ` Laurent Pinchart
2022-10-03 16:03 ` Steven Rostedt
2022-10-04 8:41 ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2022-10-04 9:20 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2022-10-04 10:16 ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2022-10-04 10:45 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
[not found] ` <20221004175354.bfvg3vhfqch35ib5@meerkat.local>
[not found] ` <Yzx1T05Ut0of55KY@kroah.com>
2022-10-04 18:13 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
[not found] ` <87fsg3s8co.fsf@intel.com>
2022-10-04 19:24 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
[not found] ` <c74d9d75-4428-e22d-1adb-334b1173d871@leemhuis.info>
2022-10-04 20:25 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2022-10-05 9:00 ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2022-10-05 9:57 ` Hans de Goede
2022-10-12 16:12 ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2022-10-17 13:57 ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2022-10-17 20:47 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2022-10-18 16:24 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
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