From: Shuah <shuah@kernel.org>
To: Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>,
Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@hansenpartnership.com>
Cc: ksummit@lists.linux.dev,
tech-board-discuss@lists.linux-foundation.org,
shuah <shuah@kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [Tech-board-discuss] [MAINTAINERS SUMMIT] Maintainers Support Group
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2023 16:53:57 -0600 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <3180ba7a-668c-971b-3357-2dd5ec9367db@kernel.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <19fc6e5b-3b20-7d4c-6e50-cc3bc5cea2da@kernel.org>
On 9/19/23 16:32, Shuah wrote:
> On 9/19/23 14:39, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
>> On Tue, Sep 19, 2023 at 10:52:40AM -0600, Shuah wrote:
>>> As a member of the CoC, I respectfully disagree with the statement "but all the
>>> focus has mainly been around telling maintainers how to behave." This impression
>>> might have been the result of one unfortunate incident that took place last year.
>>> is only part of what CoC has been doing.
>>>
>>> A majority of reports are related to incorrect understanding of how the community
>>> works and discusses technical issues. Most of them get resolved without involving
>>> the community. This is behind the scenes silent work CoC does.
>>>
>>> It is unfortunate that CoC is being viewed as a body that is focused on telling
>>> maintainers how to behave. I would encourage to not view CoC work based on one
>>> or two cases that were outliers. CoC worked very hard to resolve them fairly and
>>> that benefited the community as a whole.
>>
>> Shuah, I don't think this is the fault of the CoC. Much of it is in
>> how people interpret the CoC, or think it should be adapted. For
>> example, just this past week, on the maintainer's summit, this
>> statement:
>>
> I agree with this statement that people have differing opinions on
> the CoC role. There are people that don't think CoC is doing enough
> and other side thinks it is focused on telling maintainers how to behave.
> Neither is accurate.
>
> People that think Coc isn't doing enough don't fully understand the
> technical discussion dynamic and what constitutes a CoC violation,
> and more importantly the role of a maintainer in making decisions
> on accepting and rejecting patches.
>
> The other side that thinks CoC is focused on "telling maintainers how
> to behave" doesn't have visibility into the majority of reports CoC
> determines that they fall into the category of normal technical
> discussion and takes care of them behind the scenes.
>
>
>>> Waah, waah, waah. The buffer cache is *trivial*. If you don't like the
>>> buffer cache, don't use it. It's that simple.[1]
>>
>> ... resulted in Linus being accused as a CoC violation.
>>
>> I'm not sure that it qualifies as a CoC violation, but Dave Chinner
>> certainly thought so, and publically accused Linus of that[2].
>>
>
>> Personally, I'm not convinced that people calling people out for real
>> or imagined CoC violations is always going to be productive,
>> especially when it wasn't an explicit personal attack. It's these
>> sorts of edge cases is what causes some people to fear and badmouth
>> CoC's. Which is, I think, unfortunate.
>
> Yes. I agree that going CoC over disagreements isn't productive, neither
> is looking the other way when real violation occur.
>
Sorry this didn't read right. I agree that calling out CoC violation over
disagreements isn't productive.
> The question we have to answer as a community is are we better off with CoC
> in place or not. I would think we are better off.
>
Clarifying the confusion over adapting CoC and CoC committee, I mean
adapting CoC here.
I does appear we are going away from the main discussion of maintainer
support and I do think the proposal James pointed to is where we could
start and evolve that discussion to the actions such as support group,
instead of starting with a solution without looking at the bigger picture.
https://lore.kernel.org/ksummit/ab9cfd857e32635f626a906410ad95877a22f0db.camel@HansenPartnership.com/
thanks,
-- Shuah
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-09-19 22:53 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 28+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2023-09-19 16:10 [MAINTAINERS SUMMIT] Maintainers Support Group Steven Rostedt
2023-09-19 16:52 ` [Tech-board-discuss] " Shuah
2023-09-19 17:19 ` Steven Rostedt
2023-09-19 17:29 ` Steven Rostedt
2023-09-19 17:54 ` James Bottomley
2023-09-19 21:26 ` Shuah
2023-09-19 20:39 ` Theodore Ts'o
2023-09-19 21:02 ` Steven Rostedt
2023-09-20 12:03 ` Christian Brauner
2023-09-19 22:01 ` Theodore Ts'o
2023-09-19 22:07 ` Randy Dunlap
2023-09-19 22:40 ` Shuah
2023-09-19 22:32 ` Shuah
2023-09-19 22:53 ` Shuah [this message]
2023-09-19 17:03 ` Bart Van Assche
2023-09-19 17:21 ` Steven Rostedt
2023-09-19 22:55 ` Shuah
2023-09-19 23:21 ` Steven Rostedt
2023-09-20 7:06 ` Linus Walleij
2023-09-21 7:15 ` Jonathan Cameron
2023-09-20 19:52 ` Shuah
2023-09-20 22:54 ` Laurent Pinchart
2023-09-21 0:45 ` Shuah
2023-09-21 12:40 ` Linus Walleij
2023-09-21 12:56 ` Laurent Pinchart
2023-09-20 15:45 ` Mark Brown
2023-10-05 18:08 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2023-10-06 20:47 ` Linus Walleij
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