From: Daniel Vetter <daniel.vetter@ffwll.ch>
To: Olof Johansson <olof@lixom.net>
Cc: ksummit <ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] [MAINTAINER SUMMIT] community management/subsystem governance
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 19:10:58 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAKMK7uH2m5NEXHnVYTTwiy=AMnZVMJGn38hBb01D2cbMRQajMA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAOesGMh037Q-yT+FdDCjs=uVET3RQZDPesyEXzH8EABu2GQNzQ@mail.gmail.com>
On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 6:39 PM, Olof Johansson <olof@lixom.net> wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 8:31 AM, Daniel Vetter <daniel.vetter@ffwll.ch> wrote:
>> I need to split this up, otherwise I'll get lost on the different
>> sub-topics. I'll start with the easy ones.
>
> Agreed, I probably won't be able to keep up with this whole thread
> this week due to $job, but a few stray comments:
>
>> On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 4:53 PM, Linus Torvalds
>> <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> wrote:
>>>> Specific topics I'm interested in:
>>>> - New experiments in group maintainership, and sharing lessons learned
>>>> in general.
>>>
>>> I think that's good. But again, partly because these kinds of subjects
>>> tend to devolve into too much of a generic overview, may I suggest
>>> again trying to make things very concrete.
>>>
>>> For example, talk about the actual tools you use. Make it tangible. A
>>> couple of years ago the ARM people talked about the way they split
>>> their time to avoid stepping on each other (both in timezones, but
>>> also in how they pass the baton around in general, in addition to
>>> using branches).
>>>
>>> And yes, a lot of it probably ends up being "we didn't actually make
>>> this official or write it up, but we worked enough together that we
>>> ended up doing XYZ". That's fine. That's how real flows develop. With
>>> discussion of what the problems were, and what this solved.
>>>
>>> In other words, make it down to earth. Not the "visionary keynote",
>>> but the "this is the everyday flow".
>>
>> Yup, fully agreed. We don't need another overview over group
>> maintainer ship. Also I don't think an update from arm-soc/tip or drm
>> is interesting either. I think only if there's a new group/subsystem
>> trying this out, with all the nitty-gritty details of "this totally
>> blew up in our faces" and "this worked shockingly well" and "here we
>> need to improve still, we're not happy" is what I'm looking for.
>> Without those details there's nothing really to learn, beyond just
>> rehashing one of the old discussions. I guess I should have put more
>> emphasis on _new_ experiments :-)
>
> I'm not interested in standing up and talking about how Arnd and I
> handle things right now, but what I would be really interested in
> talking about is where we still have chafing, where things don't
> actually work great (Linus might be happy, but we're definitely in a
> spot where we could simplify life for _us_ quite a bit).
>
> I'm super excited to hear a bit about the _actual_ plans of gitlab
> move. As mentioned, not a visionary keynote, but others also talking
> about what they're looking at to fix their current pain points.
It's the topic in the other thread, so hooray for chaos, but don't
worry: I plan to make the talk as concrete as possible for a "we're
planning this" talk. Rought structure I have in mind:
- short overview of why fd.o admins want to switch and why, with a bit
of history on how drm is influenced from both kernel and userspace
alike.
- going through our current pain points, and how we think some gitlab
concepts could help. I hope that a bunch of things will be concrete
already here, using some of our userspace repos like the test-suite as
guinea pigs.
- the epic long lists of issues and infrastructure we're seeing
already in case we want to actually follow through on any of this.
Plus a request for "what did we miss?".
It's definitely not going to be your inspirational keynote thing about
how awesome community management is, ks is the wrong place for that
:-)
Cheers, Daniel
> For us on arm-soc, we've gotten a bit better at reducing our overhead,
> but the bulk of material coming in these days tends to be a no-op from
> us (just figure out that it merges, that we have handshakes with any
> external dependencies or shared branches, and pick it up). We have
> some submaintainers who need more work, and we pay closer attention to
> and have more feedback, but reducing the overhead for some of the
> others by letting them cross-review and merge themselves would be
> useful.
>
> I'm also starting to get mildly annoyed by the single-patch pull
> requests that we sometimes get. In some ways, applying patches are
> easier, not harder. For those, the model where "cherry pick when
> merging" in common code review tools would work really well.
>
>> And if nothing changed, no new groups I think think we should table
>> this right away.
>
> I really want to talk about this, but if there isn't enough interest
> from others, we could just do it in a hallway. But I think the topic
> is on point for the maintainer summit.
>
>
> -Olof
--
Daniel Vetter
Software Engineer, Intel Corporation
+41 (0) 79 365 57 48 - http://blog.ffwll.ch
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-09-10 17:11 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 162+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2018-09-10 8:59 [Ksummit-discuss] [MAINTAINER SUMMIT] community management/subsystem governance Daniel Vetter
2018-09-10 14:53 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-09-10 15:08 ` James Bottomley
2018-09-10 15:10 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-09-10 15:38 ` Sasha Levin
2018-09-10 15:47 ` James Bottomley
2018-09-10 15:55 ` Sasha Levin
2018-09-10 16:13 ` James Bottomley
2018-09-10 16:24 ` Sasha Levin
2018-09-10 17:10 ` James Bottomley
2018-09-10 15:47 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2018-09-10 15:56 ` Sasha Levin
2018-09-10 16:02 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2018-09-10 16:07 ` Daniel Vetter
2018-09-10 16:18 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2018-09-10 16:23 ` Daniel Vetter
2018-09-10 16:41 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2018-09-10 17:06 ` Daniel Vetter
2018-09-10 19:48 ` Laurent Pinchart
2018-09-10 20:50 ` Daniel Vetter
2018-09-10 15:49 ` Mark Brown
2018-09-10 16:33 ` Olof Johansson
2018-09-10 19:59 ` Laurent Pinchart
2018-09-10 21:30 ` Josh Triplett
2018-09-10 23:00 ` Laurent Pinchart
2018-09-10 23:16 ` Daniel Vetter
2018-09-11 1:14 ` Josh Triplett
2018-09-10 15:13 ` Jiri Kosina
2018-09-10 15:20 ` James Bottomley
2018-09-10 15:31 ` Sasha Levin
2018-09-10 20:15 ` Laurent Pinchart
2018-09-10 21:09 ` Sean Paul
2018-09-10 21:38 ` Laurent Pinchart
2018-09-11 10:06 ` Leon Romanovsky
2018-09-11 8:44 ` Jani Nikula
2018-09-11 9:08 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-09-11 10:01 ` Daniel Vetter
2018-09-11 10:09 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-09-11 10:17 ` Daniel Vetter
2018-09-11 10:30 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-09-11 8:41 ` Jani Nikula
2018-09-10 15:31 ` Daniel Vetter
2018-09-10 16:39 ` Olof Johansson
2018-09-10 17:10 ` Daniel Vetter [this message]
2018-09-12 19:02 ` Darren Hart
2018-09-12 18:59 ` Darren Hart
2018-09-12 20:05 ` Daniel Vetter
2018-09-12 20:58 ` Darren Hart
2018-09-13 11:27 ` Mark Brown
2018-09-13 11:41 ` Daniel Vetter
2018-09-13 17:08 ` Darren Hart
2018-09-13 2:56 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-09-13 5:17 ` Daniel Vetter
2018-09-10 15:56 ` Daniel Vetter
2018-09-10 20:32 ` Laurent Pinchart
2018-09-10 20:55 ` Daniel Vetter
2018-09-10 21:33 ` Laurent Pinchart
2018-09-10 22:44 ` Daniel Vetter
2018-09-11 12:44 ` Alexandre Belloni
2018-09-11 14:35 ` Mark Brown
2018-09-11 15:17 ` Alexandre Belloni
2018-09-11 15:02 ` Daniel Vetter
2018-09-11 22:00 ` Alexandre Belloni
2018-09-11 22:17 ` Guenter Roeck
2018-09-12 8:42 ` Jani Nikula
2018-09-12 18:45 ` Alexandre Belloni
2018-09-12 19:52 ` Dave Airlie
2018-09-12 22:25 ` Daniel Vetter
2018-09-12 9:14 ` Linus Walleij
2018-09-12 18:23 ` Alexandre Belloni
2018-09-12 18:44 ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-09-13 12:08 ` Maxime Ripard
2018-09-13 12:57 ` Alexandre Belloni
2018-09-13 13:18 ` Maxime Ripard
2018-09-13 14:25 ` Jani Nikula
2018-09-13 20:05 ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-09-13 23:02 ` Rodrigo Vivi
2018-09-14 6:47 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-09-14 6:39 ` Dave Airlie
2018-09-14 14:15 ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-09-17 7:40 ` Daniel Vetter
2018-09-14 7:08 ` Linus Walleij
2018-09-14 7:39 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-09-14 8:08 ` Linus Walleij
2018-09-12 21:21 ` Linus Walleij
2018-09-21 16:05 ` Joe Perches
2018-09-12 22:44 ` Laurent Pinchart
2018-09-10 22:56 ` Laurent Pinchart
2018-09-10 21:11 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-09-10 23:05 ` Laurent Pinchart
2018-09-17 11:43 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-09-17 12:03 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-09-17 13:04 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-09-17 13:10 ` Julia Lawall
2018-09-17 13:29 ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-09-17 13:48 ` Laurent Pinchart
2018-09-17 13:58 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-09-17 14:18 ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-09-17 14:50 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-09-17 15:21 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-09-17 14:18 ` Laurent Pinchart
2018-09-17 16:50 ` Joe Perches
2018-09-17 14:14 ` Laurent Pinchart
2018-09-17 14:59 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-09-17 22:39 ` Dave Airlie
2018-09-17 23:04 ` James Bottomley
2018-09-18 8:00 ` Daniel Vetter
2018-09-18 11:16 ` James Bottomley
2018-09-18 15:26 ` Randy Dunlap
2018-09-18 16:47 ` Tim.Bird
2018-09-18 16:59 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2018-09-18 17:08 ` Tim.Bird
2018-09-18 17:12 ` Tim.Bird
2018-09-18 17:31 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2018-09-18 17:42 ` Tim.Bird
2018-09-18 17:55 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2018-09-18 18:58 ` Tim.Bird
2018-09-18 19:24 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2018-09-18 17:47 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-09-18 17:49 ` Greg KH
2018-09-18 18:03 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2018-09-18 22:46 ` Alexandre Belloni
2018-09-18 18:22 ` Dmitry Torokhov
2018-09-18 19:16 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-09-18 18:56 ` Sasha Levin
2018-09-18 23:05 ` Laurent Pinchart
2018-09-18 7:37 ` Nicolas Ferre
2018-09-18 7:47 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-09-18 10:38 ` Laurent Pinchart
2018-09-18 16:02 ` Mark Brown
2018-09-18 16:32 ` Luck, Tony
2018-09-18 16:35 ` Dmitry Torokhov
2018-09-18 17:18 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-09-18 17:28 ` Sean Paul
2018-09-18 17:37 ` Tim.Bird
2018-09-21 16:46 ` Olof Johansson
2018-09-21 17:08 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-09-21 17:16 ` Olof Johansson
2018-09-18 17:21 ` Mark Brown
2018-09-18 21:01 ` Steven Rostedt
2018-09-18 23:16 ` Laurent Pinchart
2018-09-18 23:54 ` Mark Brown
2018-09-19 5:27 ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-09-19 9:46 ` James Bottomley
2018-09-18 17:10 ` Tim.Bird
2018-09-18 20:48 ` Takashi Iwai
2018-09-18 16:50 ` David Woodhouse
2018-09-18 17:24 ` Mark Brown
2018-09-18 19:22 ` David Woodhouse
2018-09-18 19:30 ` Sasha Levin
2018-09-18 19:38 ` Josh Triplett
2018-09-18 19:48 ` David Woodhouse
2018-09-18 8:24 ` Eric W. Biederman
2018-09-17 13:12 ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-09-17 14:14 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2018-09-17 21:59 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-09-17 22:17 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-09-10 21:19 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2018-09-11 8:33 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-09-10 16:29 ` [Ksummit-discuss] Fwd: " Daniel Vetter
2018-09-11 15:35 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Jiri Kosina
2018-09-17 11:11 ` [Ksummit-discuss] [MAINTAINER SUMMIT] Live without email - possible? - Was: " Mauro Carvalho Chehab
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