From: "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@kernel.org>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: Al Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
John Paul Adrian Glaubitz <glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de>,
linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
elver@google.com, akpm@linux-foundation.org, tglx@linutronix.de,
peterz@infradead.org, dianders@chromium.org, pmladek@suse.com,
arnd@arndb.de, kernel-team@meta.com,
Andi Shyti <andi.shyti@linux.intel.com>,
Palmer Dabbelt <palmer@rivosinc.com>,
Masami Hiramatsu <mhiramat@kernel.org>,
linux-sh@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 cmpxchg 12/13] sh: Emulate one-byte cmpxchg
Date: Thu, 2 May 2024 17:16:43 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <628950f5-b220-48cb-a3a6-818be9e46f40@paulmck-laptop> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAHk-=whaCSxengJHP82WUwrjKjYsVeD_zEN_We+gmyHpJJayoQ@mail.gmail.com>
On Thu, May 02, 2024 at 04:32:35PM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Thu, 2 May 2024 at 16:12, Paul E. McKenney <paulmck@kernel.org> wrote:
> >
> > One of RCU's state machines uses smp_store_release() to start the
> > state machine (only one task gets to do this) and cmpxchg() to update
> > state beyond that point. And the state is 8 bits so that it and other
> > state fits into 32 bits to allow a single check for multiple conditions
> > elsewhere.
>
> Note that since alpha lacks the release-acquire model, it's always
> going to be a full memory barrier before the store.
>
> And then the store turns into a load-mask-store for older alphas.
>
> So it's going to be a complete mess from a performance standpoint regardless.
And on those older machines, a mess functionally because the other
three bytes in that same 32-bit word can be concurrently updated.
Hence Arnd's patch being necessary here.
EV56 and later all have single-byte stores, so they are OK. They were
introduced in the mid-1990s, so even they are antiques. ;-)
> Happily, I doubt anybody really cares.
Here is hoping!
> I've occasionally wondered if we have situations where the
> "smp_store_release()" only cares about previous *writes* being ordered
> (ie a "smp_wmb()+WRITE_ONCE" would be sufficient).
Back in the day, rcu_assign_pointer() worked this way. But later there
were a few use cases where ordering prior reads was needed.
And in this case, we just barely need that full store-release
functionality. There is a preceding mutex lock-unlock pair that provides
a full barrier post-boot on almost all systems.
> It makes no difference on x86 (all stores are relases), power64 (wmb
> and store_release are both LWSYNC) or arm64 (str is documentated to be
> cheaper than DMB).
>
> On alpha, smp_wmb()+WRITE_ONCE() is cheaper than smp_store_release(),
> but nobody sane cares.
>
> But *if* we have a situation where the "smp_store_release()" might be
> just a "previous writes need to be visible" rather than ordering
> previous reads too, we could maybe introduce that kind of op. I
> _think_ the RCU writes tend to be of that kind?
Most of the time, rcu_assign_pointer() only needs to order prior writes,
not both reads and writes. In theory, we could make an something like
an rcu_assign_pointer_reads_too(), though hopefully with a shorter name,
and go back to smp_wmb() for rcu_assign_pointer().
But in practice, I am having a really hard time convincing myself that
it would be worth it.
Thanx, Paul
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2024-05-03 0:16 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 71+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2024-04-01 21:39 [PATCH RFC cmpxchg 0/8] Provide emulation for one- and two-byte cmpxchg() Paul E. McKenney
2024-04-01 21:39 ` [PATCH RFC cmpxchg 1/8] lib: Add one-byte and two-byte cmpxchg() emulation functions Paul E. McKenney
2024-04-02 13:07 ` Marco Elver
2024-04-02 17:15 ` Paul E. McKenney
2024-04-08 17:47 ` [PATCH RFC cmpxchg 0/8] Provide emulation for one- and two-byte cmpxchg() Paul E. McKenney
2024-04-08 17:49 ` [PATCH cmpxchg 01/14] sparc32: make __cmpxchg_u32() return u32 Paul E. McKenney
2024-04-08 17:49 ` [PATCH cmpxchg 02/14] sparc32: make the first argument of __cmpxchg_u64() volatile u64 * Paul E. McKenney
2024-04-08 17:49 ` [PATCH cmpxchg 03/14] sparc32: unify __cmpxchg_u{32,64} Paul E. McKenney
2024-04-08 17:49 ` [PATCH cmpxchg 04/14] sparc32: add __cmpxchg_u{8,16}() and teach __cmpxchg() to handle those sizes Paul E. McKenney
2024-04-08 17:49 ` [PATCH cmpxchg 05/14] parisc: __cmpxchg_u32(): lift conversion into the callers Paul E. McKenney
2024-04-08 17:49 ` [PATCH cmpxchg 06/14] parisc: unify implementations of __cmpxchg_u{8,32,64} Paul E. McKenney
2024-04-08 17:49 ` [PATCH cmpxchg 07/14] parisc: add missing export of __cmpxchg_u8() Paul E. McKenney
2024-04-08 17:49 ` [PATCH cmpxchg 08/14] parisc: add u16 support to cmpxchg() Paul E. McKenney
2024-04-08 20:10 ` Linus Torvalds
2024-04-08 20:53 ` Paul E. McKenney
2024-04-08 17:49 ` [PATCH cmpxchg 09/14] lib: Add one-byte emulation function Paul E. McKenney
2024-04-08 17:49 ` [PATCH cmpxchg 10/14] ARC: Emulate one-byte cmpxchg Paul E. McKenney
2024-04-08 17:49 ` [PATCH cmpxchg 11/14] csky: " Paul E. McKenney
2024-04-08 17:49 ` [PATCH cmpxchg 12/14] sh: " Paul E. McKenney
2024-04-18 8:04 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2024-04-08 17:49 ` [PATCH cmpxchg 13/14] xtensa: " Paul E. McKenney
2024-04-18 8:06 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2024-04-18 23:21 ` Paul E. McKenney
2024-04-19 5:07 ` Yujie Liu
2024-04-19 8:02 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2024-04-20 14:03 ` Paul E. McKenney
2024-04-08 17:49 ` [PATCH cmpxchg 14/14] riscv: " Paul E. McKenney
2024-04-09 17:35 ` Andrea Parri
2024-04-09 18:08 ` Paul E. McKenney
2024-05-01 22:58 ` [PATCH v2 cmpxchg 0/8] Provide emulation for one--byte cmpxchg() Paul E. McKenney
2024-05-01 23:01 ` [PATCH v2 cmpxchg 01/13] sparc32: make __cmpxchg_u32() return u32 Paul E. McKenney
2024-05-01 23:01 ` [PATCH v2 cmpxchg 02/13] sparc32: make the first argument of __cmpxchg_u64() volatile u64 * Paul E. McKenney
2024-05-01 23:01 ` [PATCH v2 cmpxchg 03/13] sparc32: unify __cmpxchg_u{32,64} Paul E. McKenney
2024-05-01 23:01 ` [PATCH v2 cmpxchg 04/13] sparc32: add __cmpxchg_u{8,16}() and teach __cmpxchg() to handle those sizes Paul E. McKenney
2024-05-01 23:01 ` [PATCH v2 cmpxchg 05/13] parisc: __cmpxchg_u32(): lift conversion into the callers Paul E. McKenney
2024-05-01 23:01 ` [PATCH v2 cmpxchg 06/13] parisc: unify implementations of __cmpxchg_u{8,32,64} Paul E. McKenney
2024-05-01 23:01 ` [PATCH v2 cmpxchg 07/13] parisc: add missing export of __cmpxchg_u8() Paul E. McKenney
2024-05-01 23:01 ` [PATCH v2 cmpxchg 08/13] parisc: add u16 support to cmpxchg() Paul E. McKenney
2024-05-01 23:01 ` [PATCH v2 cmpxchg 09/13] lib: Add one-byte emulation function Paul E. McKenney
2024-05-13 14:44 ` Boqun Feng
2024-05-13 15:41 ` Paul E. McKenney
2024-05-13 15:57 ` Boqun Feng
2024-05-13 21:19 ` Boqun Feng
2024-05-14 14:22 ` Paul E. McKenney
2024-05-14 14:53 ` Boqun Feng
2024-05-14 15:02 ` Paul E. McKenney
2024-05-01 23:01 ` [PATCH v2 cmpxchg 10/13] ARC: Emulate one-byte cmpxchg Paul E. McKenney
2024-05-01 23:01 ` [PATCH v2 cmpxchg 11/13] csky: " Paul E. McKenney
2024-05-11 6:42 ` Guo Ren
2024-05-11 14:49 ` Paul E. McKenney
2024-05-01 23:01 ` [PATCH v2 cmpxchg 12/13] sh: " Paul E. McKenney
2024-05-02 4:52 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2024-05-02 5:06 ` Paul E. McKenney
2024-05-02 5:11 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2024-05-02 13:33 ` Paul E. McKenney
2024-05-02 20:53 ` Al Viro
2024-05-02 21:01 ` alpha cmpxchg.h (was Re: [PATCH v2 cmpxchg 12/13] sh: Emulate one-byte cmpxchg) Al Viro
2024-05-02 22:16 ` Linus Torvalds
2024-05-02 21:18 ` [PATCH v2 cmpxchg 12/13] sh: Emulate one-byte cmpxchg Paul E. McKenney
2024-05-02 22:07 ` Al Viro
2024-05-02 23:12 ` Paul E. McKenney
2024-05-02 23:24 ` Al Viro
2024-05-02 23:45 ` Paul E. McKenney
2024-05-02 23:32 ` Linus Torvalds
2024-05-03 0:16 ` Paul E. McKenney [this message]
2024-05-02 21:50 ` Arnd Bergmann
2024-05-02 5:42 ` D. Jeff Dionne
2024-05-02 11:30 ` Arnd Bergmann
2024-05-01 23:01 ` [PATCH v2 cmpxchg 13/13] xtensa: " Paul E. McKenney
2024-05-02 20:01 ` [PATCH v2 cmpxchg 0/8] Provide emulation for one--byte cmpxchg() Al Viro
2024-05-02 21:20 ` Paul E. McKenney
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