* Minimal x86 memory requirements
@ 2011-02-15 0:33 Darren Hart
2011-02-15 2:39 ` Rob Landley
2011-02-15 10:04 ` Florian Fainelli
0 siblings, 2 replies; 3+ messages in thread
From: Darren Hart @ 2011-02-15 0:33 UTC (permalink / raw
To: linux-embedded
I'm looking to build a bare minimum x86 kernel that will boot and run
busybox, nothing else (and eventually less than that). Assuming I do
need USB-HID, IDE, and basic TCP/IP, what should I expect to be the
least RAM I could get away with just to boot off flash, get a getty,
login, and take a few directory listings.
If anyone would like to point me where to RTFM, that would be
appreciated as well :-)
--
Darren Hart
Intel Open Source Technology Center
Yocto Project - Linux Kernel
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 3+ messages in thread
* Re: Minimal x86 memory requirements
2011-02-15 0:33 Minimal x86 memory requirements Darren Hart
@ 2011-02-15 2:39 ` Rob Landley
2011-02-15 10:04 ` Florian Fainelli
1 sibling, 0 replies; 3+ messages in thread
From: Rob Landley @ 2011-02-15 2:39 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Darren Hart; +Cc: linux-embedded
On 02/14/2011 06:33 PM, Darren Hart wrote:
> I'm looking to build a bare minimum x86 kernel that will boot and run
> busybox, nothing else (and eventually less than that). Assuming I do
> need USB-HID, IDE, and basic TCP/IP, what should I expect to be the
> least RAM I could get away with just to boot off flash, get a getty,
> login, and take a few directory listings.
On a nommu system, if you configure out most of the PRINTK strings, you
can run a reasonably useful system in 4 megabytes. However, that's
using a small flash-based initramfs with the block layer disabled. I
don't know if you can fit everything you need in there (USB, the block
layer, and networking stack). And if you want a MMU system, you'll add
the overhead of page tables in there.
So while you _might_ still be able to trim it down to 4 megabytes, I'd
budget somewhere in the 6 to 8 megs range. Don't forget to statically
link your busybox binary so you don't dirty physical pages with
relocations. (Against uClibc of course, Ulrich Drepper deprecated
static linking in glibc because they suck at it so badly.)
I note that the Linux kernel (last I checked, circa 2006) no longer
booted in 2 megabytes of ram due to the relocations required to extract
the thing when it gunzips it, it simply wouldn't let the mappings be
that close. Maybe that's been addressed, but I doubt it.
Something people were spending time on a while back was mapping the
kernel directly out of flash (I can never keep NAND and NOR straight but
the one that works more like normal memory) since the code segment is
just a big read-only mapping block anyway. I think these days it works
fine, but I haven't tried it. Doing that saves DRAM, but it needs
actual mappable flash or ROM, and not a block device that faults pages
into DRAM under under the covers when mapped. All that XIP work
(execute-in-place and binflat and such) was related to that as well.
Note that flash may not be as FAST as dram so you take a performance
hit, but they were worrying about the power consumption of requiring
less DRAM to refresh.
Does this help? (Play with QEMU. QEMU is awesome. I have system
images at http://landley.net/downloads/binaries which provide a static
uClibc defconfig busybox binary you can try tweaking the kernel .config
and such for. It's defconfig so it's pretty big, but it should give you
a reasonable idea. If you want the busybox binaries by themselves, I
copied them to http://busybox.net/downloads/binaries. Remind me to
update that for the new release...)
Rob
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 3+ messages in thread
* Re: Minimal x86 memory requirements
2011-02-15 0:33 Minimal x86 memory requirements Darren Hart
2011-02-15 2:39 ` Rob Landley
@ 2011-02-15 10:04 ` Florian Fainelli
1 sibling, 0 replies; 3+ messages in thread
From: Florian Fainelli @ 2011-02-15 10:04 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Darren Hart; +Cc: linux-embedded
Hello,
On Tuesday 15 February 2011 01:33:25 Darren Hart wrote:
> I'm looking to build a bare minimum x86 kernel that will boot and run
> busybox, nothing else (and eventually less than that). Assuming I do
> need USB-HID, IDE, and basic TCP/IP, what should I expect to be the
> least RAM I could get away with just to boot off flash, get a getty,
> login, and take a few directory listings.
>
> If anyone would like to point me where to RTFM, that would be
> appreciated as well :-)
OpenWrt runs currently on a RDC R-321x System-on-Chip which is i486 based [1]
and usually designed with 16MB of RAM, the bzImage itself is around 768KB w/
the following features built-in:
- TCP/IP networking
- MTD support for CFI compatible NOR flashes
- JFFS2/squashfs filesystem
When I load additionnal modules to be able to do NAT/USB/FAT filesystems for
instance, plus having must have daemons running (dnsmasq, dropbear, busybox,
hostapd ...), I still have around 3MB of available RAM (for a 16MB RAM
device). The filesystem itself is compressed using squashfs+lzma, and fits
within 3MB (loadable modules are inside, usable image at [2]).
So from my perspective, you should be able to do all of this with a 16MB RAM
device, plus 4 to 8MB of Flash to be confortable with storing your filesystem.
Hope that helps.
[1]: http://wiki.openwrt.org/oldwiki/openwrtdocs/hardware/airlink101/ar525w
[2]: http://downloads.openwrt.org/backfire/10.03.1-rc4/rdc/openwrt-rdc-
squashfs-ar525w.img
--
Florian
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2011-02-15 2:39 ` Rob Landley
2011-02-15 10:04 ` Florian Fainelli
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