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From: Eyal Lebedinsky <eyal@eyal.emu.id.au>
To: list linux-usb <linux-usb@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: usb port enumeration changed? [resolved]
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2021 16:43:35 +1000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <a9c21e7b-0175-26b4-2ef7-84cd3c6ef1ec@eyal.emu.id.au> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20210727022345.GA138425@rowland.harvard.edu>

See end of message.

On 27/07/2021 12.23, Alan Stern wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 11:15:11AM +1000, Eyal Lebedinsky wrote:
>> I know that device numbers change, but bus/port numbers are stable and reflect the physical layout
>> of the hubs and devices. I relied for years on these port numbers to identify specific (otherwise
>> identical) devices.
> 
> Port numbers are stable.  Bus numbers aren't.  (They do tend to be stable
> but there are no guarantees.)
> 
>> Searching the list (I am now subscribed) and the web did not yield an answer.
>>
>> For example, I have two TEMPer temperature sensor devices attached. They are both plugged into
>> a 4-port USB3 hub. They are on ports 3 and 4. Port 2 is unused and port 1 has a bluetooth radio
>> attached. I also have 5 dvb usb tuners which stayed in their old positions.
>>
>> Until now (fedora 34, last on 5.12.17-300.fc34.x86_64), I would see this:
>>
>> $ lsusb
>> Bus 001 Device 013: ID 0c45:7401 Microdia TEMPer Temperature Sensor
>> Bus 001 Device 025: ID 0c45:7401 Microdia TEMPer Temperature Sensor
>>
>> $ lsusb -t
>> /:  Bus 02.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=xhci_hcd/10p, 10000M
>>      |__ Port 4: Dev 2, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/4p, 5000M
>>          |__ Port 4: Dev 4, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/4p, 5000M
>>      |__ Port 5: Dev 3, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/4p, 5000M
>> /:  Bus 01.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=xhci_hcd/16p, 480M
>>      |__ Port 2: Dev 26, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/4p, 480M
>>          |__ Port 2: Dev 27, If 1, Class=Human Interface Device, Driver=usbhid, 12M
>>          |__ Port 2: Dev 27, If 0, Class=Human Interface Device, Driver=usbhid, 12M
>>      |__ Port 4: Dev 3, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/4p, 480M
>>          |__ Port 3: Dev 10, If 1, Class=Vendor Specific Class, Driver=, 480M
>>          |__ Port 3: Dev 10, If 0, Class=Vendor Specific Class, Driver=dvb_usb_rtl28xxu, 480M
>>          |__ Port 1: Dev 6, If 0, Class=Vendor Specific Class, Driver=dvb_usb_rtl28xxu, 480M
>>          |__ Port 1: Dev 6, If 1, Class=Vendor Specific Class, Driver=, 480M
>>          |__ Port 4: Dev 12, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/4p, 480M
>>              |__ Port 3: Dev 15, If 0, Class=Printer, Driver=usblp, 12M
>>              |__ Port 1: Dev 14, If 1, Class=Vendor Specific Class, Driver=, 480M
>>              |__ Port 1: Dev 14, If 0, Class=Vendor Specific Class, Driver=dvb_usb_rtl28xxu, 480M
>>              |__ Port 4: Dev 16, If 0, Class=Vendor Specific Class, Driver=dvb_usb_rtl28xxu, 480M
>>              |__ Port 4: Dev 16, If 1, Class=Vendor Specific Class, Driver=, 480M
>>          |__ Port 2: Dev 8, If 0, Class=Vendor Specific Class, Driver=dvb_usb_rtl28xxu, 480M
>>          |__ Port 2: Dev 8, If 1, Class=Vendor Specific Class, Driver=, 480M
>>      |__ Port 5: Dev 5, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/4p, 480M
>>          |__ Port 1: Dev 20, If 0, Class=Wireless, Driver=btusb, 12M
>>          |__ Port 1: Dev 20, If 1, Class=Wireless, Driver=btusb, 12M
>>          |__ Port 3: Dev 25, If 0, Class=Human Interface Device, Driver=, 1.5M            <<<<<
>>          |__ Port 3: Dev 25, If 1, Class=Human Interface Device, Driver=, 1.5M            <<<<<
>>          |__ Port 4: Dev 13, If 0, Class=Human Interface Device, Driver=, 1.5M            <<<<<
>>          |__ Port 4: Dev 13, If 1, Class=Human Interface Device, Driver=, 1.5M            <<<<<
>>      |__ Port 6: Dev 19, If 0, Class=Human Interface Device, Driver=usbfs, 1.5M
>>
>> The TEMPer devices show on Bus 01 as was always:
>>      Port 5.Port 3    (Dev 11)
> 
> In fact it is device 25; see above.  There is o device 11 in the lsusb
> output.
> 
>>      Port 5.Port 4    (Dev 13)
>>
>> After rebooting the newly installed kernel 5.13.4-200.fc34.x86_64 I get:
>>
>> $ lsusb
>> Bus 001 Device 012: ID 0c45:7401 Microdia TEMPer Temperature Sensor
>> Bus 001 Device 003: ID 0c45:7401 Microdia TEMPer Temperature Sensor
>>
>> $ lsusb -t
>> /:  Bus 02.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=xhci_hcd/10p, 10000M
>>      |__ Port 4: Dev 2, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/4p, 5000M
>>          |__ Port 4: Dev 4, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/4p, 5000M
>>      |__ Port 5: Dev 3, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/4p, 5000M
>> /:  Bus 01.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=xhci_hcd/16p, 480M
>>      |__ Port 2: Dev 2, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/4p, 480M
>>          |__ Port 2: Dev 4, If 1, Class=Human Interface Device, Driver=usbhid, 12M
>>          |__ Port 2: Dev 4, If 0, Class=Human Interface Device, Driver=usbhid, 12M
>>      |__ Port 3: Dev 3, If 0, Class=Human Interface Device, Driver=, 1.5M            <<<<<
>>      |__ Port 3: Dev 3, If 1, Class=Human Interface Device, Driver=, 1.5M            <<<<<
>>      |__ Port 4: Dev 5, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/4p, 480M
>>          |__ Port 3: Dev 11, If 1, Class=Vendor Specific Class, Driver=, 480M
>>          |__ Port 3: Dev 11, If 0, Class=Vendor Specific Class, Driver=dvb_usb_rtl28xxu, 480M
>>          |__ Port 1: Dev 7, If 0, Class=Vendor Specific Class, Driver=dvb_usb_rtl28xxu, 480M
>>          |__ Port 1: Dev 7, If 1, Class=Vendor Specific Class, Driver=, 480M
>>          |__ Port 4: Dev 13, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/4p, 480M
>>              |__ Port 3: Dev 15, If 0, Class=Printer, Driver=usblp, 12M
>>              |__ Port 1: Dev 14, If 1, Class=Vendor Specific Class, Driver=, 480M
>>              |__ Port 1: Dev 14, If 0, Class=Vendor Specific Class, Driver=dvb_usb_rtl28xxu, 480M
>>              |__ Port 4: Dev 16, If 0, Class=Vendor Specific Class, Driver=dvb_usb_rtl28xxu, 480M
>>              |__ Port 4: Dev 16, If 1, Class=Vendor Specific Class, Driver=, 480M
>>          |__ Port 2: Dev 9, If 0, Class=Vendor Specific Class, Driver=dvb_usb_rtl28xxu, 480M
>>          |__ Port 2: Dev 9, If 1, Class=Vendor Specific Class, Driver=, 480M
>>      |__ Port 5: Dev 6, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/4p, 480M
>>          |__ Port 1: Dev 10, If 0, Class=Wireless, Driver=btusb, 12M
>>          |__ Port 1: Dev 10, If 1, Class=Wireless, Driver=btusb, 12M
>>          |__ Port 3: Dev 12, If 0, Class=Human Interface Device, Driver=, 1.5M            <<<<<
>>          |__ Port 3: Dev 12, If 1, Class=Human Interface Device, Driver=, 1.5M            <<<<<
>>      |__ Port 6: Dev 18, If 0, Class=Human Interface Device, Driver=usbfs, 1.5M
>>
>> One can see that the TEMPer devices are now showing on Bus 01 but in separate positions:
>>      Port 3           (Dev 3)  new position
>>      Port 5.Port 3    (Dev 12) old position
> 
> Are you certain that device 3 really is one of the TEMPer devices and not
> something else?
> 
>> This, naturally, confuses my script that collects the data from these sensors (I use temper-poll).
> 
> Are you certain you didn't change the wiring?  I can't think of any other
> explanation.
> 
>> Is this an intentional change?
> 
> Nope.
> 
>> If so then what is the way to stably disambiguate usb devices (there is no s/n available)?
> 
> Using port paths is a fairly good way to go.  Unless the devices get
> unplugged and then plugged back into different ports.
> 
>> If no change was expected then does this reflect a possible hwr problem here?
> 
> No, it represents a physical impossibility.  Consider the following thought
> experiment: You unplug the four-port hub that is device 6 on bus 1 (port
> 5).  That will of course also disconnect anything that is plugged into that
> hub, presumably including your two temperature sensors.  But if one of them
> is plugged into port 3 of the root hub instead, it won't be affected by
> this operation.  So what really happens?

Seeing the confidence of the reply I decided to do more testing.
- booting the old kernel did not fix it.
- unplugging and re-plugging the devices did not help.

I then crawled under the table and followed the large cables bundle to find that I should have
trusted my instruments (the USB system).

While the correct cable was plugged into the correct socket, the far end used an extension which
*was* plugged into the wrong thing. I then remembered that at one time the cable was pulled off
accidentally and quickly re-attached...

In short, I am stupid and apology for the noise.

> Alan Stern

Regards,

-- 
Eyal Lebedinsky (eyal@eyal.emu.id.au)

  reply	other threads:[~2021-07-27  6:43 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 4+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-07-27  1:15 usb port enumeration changed? Eyal Lebedinsky
2021-07-27  2:23 ` Alan Stern
2021-07-27  6:43   ` Eyal Lebedinsky [this message]
2021-07-27 13:39     ` usb port enumeration changed? [resolved] Alan Stern

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