From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mail-pg1-f201.google.com (mail-pg1-f201.google.com [209.85.215.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 58D2474BE4 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2024 15:05:22 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=209.85.215.201 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1713193523; cv=none; b=F19uoNhiq191ISvTvAFAZ/7ND8buWxnrS0L3m6ee5vbBcUNFKi5mTmAxDQbF5hZutnJLrttxslEPVQz0JLdSwzL0ZMfw8NEpHL/pUUbXA1srOuG2peY5a7qe+Mg6Gyb5nRuQpmyphtSxKusD+Xmw8U9LXmXgAJDfg1SlXvyzYC0= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1713193523; c=relaxed/simple; bh=cb5LU6UaG6mCWdz046rKlGo0stuTeCVzOZo2+XGijNA=; h=Date:In-Reply-To:Mime-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:From: To:Cc:Content-Type; b=VQfk/ERCFj6DCwWaMgv6/azEq8V3gHQcQXlJjQsUDSAPRgrC5304cgiwNrplRJS4xjzl1LG3ZFXazHCZTrbHZOd1480fTmXZ+uJBTe+Pl3Yt1vf4E27Pn7C1uQaxY+oMIVK7X7xythfM3x2XwjxoPvp3GwIkA50sBt4rc5zY4lg= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=reject dis=none) header.from=google.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=flex--seanjc.bounces.google.com; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com header.i=@google.com header.b=ZBlNeQBz; arc=none smtp.client-ip=209.85.215.201 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=reject dis=none) header.from=google.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=flex--seanjc.bounces.google.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com header.i=@google.com header.b="ZBlNeQBz" Received: by mail-pg1-f201.google.com with SMTP id 41be03b00d2f7-5f034b4db5bso1853079a12.0 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2024 08:05:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20230601; t=1713193522; x=1713798322; darn=vger.kernel.org; h=cc:to:from:subject:message-id:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :date:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=SuVb06F6Umo7w+6KN9zon9oyW6hYaksRHCECH15MmFs=; b=ZBlNeQBzzD39USQV4lQSX6WrcoklFD9NW0c4qPmRBdW8NLfAD4/kS/lmRulYQDyH92 m5z8F4C+c9dZzluHbT2S3okES3oPdmKsu2ZaHHAiEfL6YqPxVzLQ130qIuNiACKppDpR Uurle3zSkmDP6n66B4S9CuGCN4wfKHY+55c2UhAzSQ3HrZvGGMFeTp1iaM3FzgRyx8rj l5gA4xgz7xJ7cbwHxrcLQlaGcuOATonP4UEyACnI98t5cNBmyS2gr8Z7yn5+jlaxmynX a2sFZRJsZEEOBJFLsVkOj1iM/Ndt8sSw5rJga7lmkoLKpmwoW934Oe01ZbxWp0aUrERy U0vQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1713193522; x=1713798322; h=cc:to:from:subject:message-id:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :date:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=SuVb06F6Umo7w+6KN9zon9oyW6hYaksRHCECH15MmFs=; b=sxrUGEAnoiYhB49JuSE56CrX1fFdYB6BQvchl+V3WVChsQHAqG/RMO4fVN3isEZ8I3 mumBgOqd8QJXGq145Il84G907sJRqHVvFxWYwJ2KXRVC5vm1r45gx7lpoSOyS1sCE7mu yctupWiZbCDcX3oYdDzMhmCDSbJ0rIUQYpYSeqwsz05fwnZGpFpgzeQpnwpbxtEFLHT5 +Xt0ZjmpiYGApGFISwM4TYaxmdLZbzDD4HQGpWRpHTMZdSjmRFiLaxj51oONiku2gSl/ mjRznt5WQGmq7XDqABtm61wKbJNCF4CMB17XJIvT4ufci4Yt1Sxhqzx7o4p070tzQMPM s2mA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWkaFi4nPPHkUIn9jYSawZ54t1hnAp41MUoa4SFsKO7AYJB/ls8dJINoo6hZO2eXjsehepMuazd+3L8Da2BGUQLPMhCBku8mZzMGMr1 X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzQn+m5K/47spHdeT8kZKaJLCcRao1cvsBV08YkYPWRzVTQXho4 nNB5AXCfmBPKnfer827RdfJiHLYVHbY5KCM/o8nRG/sgMkF+w9Pdn1TyBxa1f+dFPLX7wJDfAnE Yuw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFNVZQ/MDJQfcv6+VmiHpGKHgYit0QrR1jndoJek9xGhKOIiS0f9IOscBG23RSnBreqsUFbs1m2Wmg= X-Received: from zagreus.c.googlers.com ([fda3:e722:ac3:cc00:7f:e700:c0a8:5c37]) (user=seanjc job=sendgmr) by 2002:a63:ff21:0:b0:5dc:aa2a:777c with SMTP id k33-20020a63ff21000000b005dcaa2a777cmr28179pgi.6.1713193521588; Mon, 15 Apr 2024 08:05:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 08:05:19 -0700 In-Reply-To: <9469faf7-1659-4436-848f-53ec01d967f2@linux.intel.com> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Mime-Version: 1.0 References: <20240126085444.324918-1-xiong.y.zhang@linux.intel.com> <9469faf7-1659-4436-848f-53ec01d967f2@linux.intel.com> Message-ID: Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 00/41] KVM: x86/pmu: Introduce passthrough vPM From: Sean Christopherson To: Xiong Y Zhang Cc: pbonzini@redhat.com, peterz@infradead.org, mizhang@google.com, kan.liang@intel.com, zhenyuw@linux.intel.com, dapeng1.mi@linux.intel.com, jmattson@google.com, kvm@vger.kernel.org, linux-perf-users@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, zhiyuan.lv@intel.com, eranian@google.com, irogers@google.com, samantha.alt@intel.com, like.xu.linux@gmail.com, chao.gao@intel.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" On Mon, Apr 15, 2024, Xiong Y Zhang wrote: > On 4/13/2024 2:32 AM, Sean Christopherson wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 12, 2024, Xiong Y Zhang wrote: > >>>> 2. NMI watchdog > >>>> the perf event for NMI watchdog is a system wide cpu pinned event, it > >>>> will be stopped also during vm running, but it doesn't have > >>>> attr.exclude_guest=1, we add it in this RFC. But this still means NMI > >>>> watchdog loses function during VM running. > >>>> > >>>> Two candidates exist for replacing perf event of NMI watchdog: > >>>> a. Buddy hardlock detector[3] may be not reliable to replace perf event. > >>>> b. HPET-based hardlock detector [4] isn't in the upstream kernel. > >>> > >>> I think the simplest solution is to allow mediated PMU usage if and only if > >>> the NMI watchdog is disabled. Then whether or not the host replaces the NMI > >>> watchdog with something else becomes an orthogonal discussion, i.e. not KVM's > >>> problem to solve. > >> Make sense. KVM should not affect host high priority work. > >> NMI watchdog is a client of perf and is a system wide perf event, perf can't > >> distinguish a system wide perf event is NMI watchdog or others, so how about > >> we extend this suggestion to all the system wide perf events ? mediated PMU > >> is only allowed when all system wide perf events are disabled or non-exist at > >> vm creation. > > > > What other kernel-driven system wide perf events are there? > does "kernel-driven" mean perf events created through > perf_event_create_kernel_counter() like nmi_watchdog and kvm perf events ? By kernel-driven I meant events that aren't tied to a single userspace process or action. E.g. KVM creates events, but those events are effectively user-driven because they will go away if the associated VM terminates. > User can create system wide perf event through "perf record -e {} -a" also, I > call it as user-driven system wide perf events. Perf subsystem doesn't > distinguish "kernel-driven" and "user-driven" system wide perf events. Right, but us humans can build a list, even if it's only for documentation, e.g. to provide help for someone to run KVM guests with mediated PMUs, but can't because there are active !exclude_guest events. > >> but NMI watchdog is usually enabled, this will limit mediated PMU usage. > > > > I don't think it is at all unreasonable to require users that want optimal PMU > > virtualization to adjust their environment. And we can and should document the > > tradeoffs and alternatives, e.g. so that users that want better PMU results don't > > need to re-discover all the "gotchas" on their own. > > > > This would even be one of the rare times where I would be ok with a dmesg log. > > E.g. if KVM is loaded with enable_mediated_pmu=true, but there are system wide > > perf events, pr_warn() to explain the conflict and direct the user at documentation > > explaining how to make their system compatible with mediate PMU usage.> > >>>> 3. Dedicated kvm_pmi_vector > >>>> In emulated vPMU, host PMI handler notify KVM to inject a virtual > >>>> PMI into guest when physical PMI belongs to guest counter. If the > >>>> same mechanism is used in passthrough vPMU and PMI skid exists > >>>> which cause physical PMI belonging to guest happens after VM-exit, > >>>> then the host PMI handler couldn't identify this PMI belongs to > >>>> host or guest. > >>>> So this RFC uses a dedicated kvm_pmi_vector, PMI belonging to guest > >>>> has this vector only. The PMI belonging to host still has an NMI > >>>> vector. > >>>> > >>>> Without considering PMI skid especially for AMD, the host NMI vector > >>>> could be used for guest PMI also, this method is simpler and doesn't > >>> > >>> I don't see how multiplexing NMIs between guest and host is simpler. At best, > >>> the complexity is a wash, just in different locations, and I highly doubt it's > >>> a wash. AFAIK, there is no way to precisely know that an NMI came in via the > >>> LVTPC. > >> when kvm_intel.pt_mode=PT_MODE_HOST_GUEST, guest PT's PMI is a multiplexing > >> NMI between guest and host, we could extend guest PT's PMI framework to > >> mediated PMU. so I think this is simpler. > > > > Heh, what do you mean by "this"? Using a dedicated IRQ vector, or extending the > > PT framework of multiplexing NMI? > here "this" means "extending the PT framework of multiplexing NMI". The PT framework's multiplexing is just as crude as regular PMIs though. Perf basically just asks KVM: is this yours? And KVM simply checks that the callback occurred while KVM_HANDLING_NMI is set. E.g. prior to commit 11df586d774f ("KVM: VMX: Handle NMI VM-Exits in noinstr region"), nothing would prevent perf from miscontruing a host PMI as a guest PMI, because KVM re-enabled host PT prior to servicing guest NMIs, i.e. host PT would be active while KVM_HANDLING_NMI is set. And conversely, if a guest PMI skids past VM-Exit, as things currently stand, the NMI will always be treated as host PMI, because KVM will not be in KVM_HANDLING_NMI. KVM's emulated PMI can (and should) eliminate false positives for host PMIs by precisely checking exclude_guest, but that doesn't help with false negatives for guest PMIs, nor does it help with NMIs that aren't perf related, i.e. didn't come from the LVTPC. Is a naive implementation simpler? Maybe. But IMO, multiplexing NMI and getting all the edge cases right is more complex than using a dedicated vector for guest PMIs, as the latter provides a "hard" boundary and allows the kernel to _know_ that an interrupt is for a guest PMI.