virtio-comment.lists.oasis-open.org archive mirror
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Xuewei Niu <niuxuewei97@gmail.com>
To: sgarzare@redhat.com
Cc: fupan.lfp@antgroup.com, mst@redhat.com,
	niuxuewei.nxw@antgroup.com, niuxuewei97@gmail.com,
	parav@nvidia.com, stefanha@redhat.com,
	virtio-comment@lists.linux.dev
Subject: Re: [PATCH v6 RESEND] virtio-vsock: Add support for multi devices
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2025 11:05:47 +0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20250410030547.3108952-1-niuxuewei.nxw@antgroup.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAGxU2F4EpyYg2z5RKq9C-hTDK3Cb06wKJzB_pF_NH_XipAYw=g@mail.gmail.com>

> On Wed, 9 Apr 2025 at 08:56, Xuewei Niu <niuxuewei97@gmail.com> wrote:
> [...]
> > >
> > > The idea is to inform the guest which addresses are reachable by the
> > > device, so the guest can easily decide which device to use. I'm
> > > talking about the destination, so CID_HOST(2), CID_HYPERVISOS(0) or a
> > > sibling VM (CID >=3).
> > >
> > > >
> > > > We have had the guest_cid field in the config space. The guest knows all
> > > > devices present in the VM.
> > >
> > > Okay, but how can the guest figure out from this information which
> > > device to use to talk to the hypervisor or an application in the host?
> > >
> > > >
> > > > If the app tries to bind a random CID, it will fail since the driver can't
> > > > find the device by the CID.
> > >
> > > I'm not talking about the source CID on which to do bind() (which I
> > > honestly don't like), but I'm talking about the destination CID on
> > > which to do connect().
> > >
> > > > > so that the guest knows which device to use depending on the destination
> > > > > CID.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, this is what I was describing in the previous comment. The message
> > > > will be directed to the device by the destination CID.
> > >
> > > Sorry, I don't understand how you do this without having an
> > > information from the device about what addresses it supports. Can you
> > > elaborate a bit?
> >
> > Thanks for your explanation. So things you were talking about are as
> > follows:
> >
> > 1) guest app as a server: the app MUST do `bind()` to a CID that is
> > available in current VM.
> > 2) guest app as a client: the guest driver picks a device and uses the
> > device's CID as src CID, so that the guest app don't need to do `bind()`,
> > but only do `connect()`.
> >
> > The key point is who takes responsibility for picking a device:
> >
> > 1) I prefer the guest app to do such thing: do `bind()` to pick one, then
> > do `connect()`.
> 
> Why?
> 
> This implies that users must be informed in some way that they must
> use a certain CID to communicate with the VMM and another to
> communicate with the host application, when they could just as well
> use CID_HYPERVISOS(0) or CID_HOST(2) for that and everything would be
> transparent.

Sorry, I didn't express it clearly. I just listed my original idea and your
idea.

What types of services can be considered as hypervisor services? In our
case, the kata-agent is a control service for Kata, so could we consider it
as a hypervisor service?

How does the driver know which device is for hypervisor? A possible way is
to add a feature, like `VIRTIO_VSOCK_F_HYPERVISOR`? If it is possible, I
think the CID_HYPERVISOR can still be used in the case of 3+ devices to
maintain the same behavior.

> > 2) You prefer the guest driver: only do `connect()`, and the guest driver
> > picks one according to the dst CID.
> >
> > Am I right?
> 
> Yes, I prefer to keep things simple.
> 
> Obviously what I said works if we only have 2 devices (or at most 3
> where one supports only CID_HYPERVISOR, the other only CID_HOST, and
> the third CID >=3).
> As I anticipated, if we want to support more, then we have to
> necessarily go with the original option of this proposal with the
> default device, etc.
> 
> That's why IMO we should support both.
> 
> >
> > I'm open to both ideas, but I have some concerns:
> >
> > 1) Two devices are in the different namespaces, e.g. host kernel(vhost) and
> > hybrid vsock(vhost-user), which might cause two same CIDs (e.g.
> > VMADDR_CID_HOST). If that happened, the driver can't distinguish them.
> > Instead, we can avoid this by letting the guest app pick a device.
> 
> Yep, in this case you need that, but how the user knows which source CID
> to use?

The CID should be confirmed in advance, and users should ensure that there
are no conflicts with CIDs.

> Again I'm not saying we should not implement this proposal, I'm saying
> that we should also add the other option in order to keep vsock simple
> when you have 2 devices, one used to talk with the VMM and the other
> to talk with applications.

Got it. Thanks for clarifying this.

> > 2) What if the number of VMs is too large? For instance, 1,000 VMs (1,000
> > CIDs) will need at least 8000B of config space. (Hmm, it looks like an
> > extreme example, I don't know if it will happen in real world.)
> 
> I didn't get sorry, can you elaborate a bit?

I misunderstood. I thought you are trying to have an array to save all
supported dst CIDs in the case of 3+ devices. Please just ignore this.

> Anyway, for me we can also go ahead with this proposal and add the
> other one later.
> I would like to keep the guest simple, and IMO hiding the complexity
> in the driver is not bad for your use case where one device talks to
> the VMM and the other talks to applications in the host.

Fair enough. I am very glad to see that we can move forward with this
feature ;)

Big thanks to you!
Xuewei

> Thanks,
> Stefano

  reply	other threads:[~2025-04-10  3:06 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 23+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2025-03-24  6:43 [PATCH v6 RESEND] virtio-vsock: Add support for multi devices Xuewei Niu
2025-03-24 13:51 ` Stefano Garzarella
2025-03-25  3:19   ` Xuewei Niu
2025-03-26  8:50     ` Stefano Garzarella
2025-03-26 10:00       ` Xuewei Niu
2025-03-26 10:32         ` Stefano Garzarella
2025-03-26 10:36           ` Stefano Garzarella
2025-03-26  2:59   ` Xuewei Niu
2025-03-26  9:03     ` Stefano Garzarella
2025-03-27  8:18       ` Xuewei Niu
2025-03-31  6:18         ` Xuewei Niu
2025-04-01 11:15           ` Stefano Garzarella
2025-04-07  2:17             ` Xuewei Niu
2025-04-08 13:34               ` Stefano Garzarella
2025-04-09  6:55                 ` Xuewei Niu
2025-04-09  9:34                   ` Stefano Garzarella
2025-04-10  3:05                     ` Xuewei Niu [this message]
2025-04-10  7:21                       ` Stefano Garzarella
2025-04-10  8:58                         ` Xuewei Niu
2025-04-10 10:38                           ` Stefano Garzarella
2025-04-10 10:47                             ` Xuewei Niu
2025-04-10 10:49                               ` Stefano Garzarella
2025-04-10 13:47                               ` Michael S. Tsirkin

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=20250410030547.3108952-1-niuxuewei.nxw@antgroup.com \
    --to=niuxuewei97@gmail.com \
    --cc=fupan.lfp@antgroup.com \
    --cc=mst@redhat.com \
    --cc=niuxuewei.nxw@antgroup.com \
    --cc=parav@nvidia.com \
    --cc=sgarzare@redhat.com \
    --cc=stefanha@redhat.com \
    --cc=virtio-comment@lists.linux.dev \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).