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* [ANN] unicorn 4.8.3 - the end of an era
@ 2014-05-07  8:05 Eric Wong
  2014-05-07  9:30 ` Jérémy Lecour
  2014-05-07 12:08 ` Bráulio Bhavamitra
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Eric Wong @ 2014-05-07  8:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mongrel-unicorn; +Cc: unicorn-public

Changes:

This release updates documentation to reflect the migration of the
mailing list to a new public-inbox[1] instance.  This is necessary
due to the impending RubyForge shutdown on May 15, 2014.

The public-inbox address is: unicorn-public@bogomips.org
    (no subscription required, plain text only)
ssoma[2] git archives: git://bogomips.org/unicorn-public
browser-friendly archives: http://bogomips.org/unicorn-public/

Using, getting help for, and contributing to unicorn will never
require any of the following:

1) non-Free software (including SaaS)
2) registration or sign-in of any kind
3) a real identity (we accept mail from Mixmaster)
4) a graphical user interface

Nowadays, plain-text email is the only ubiquitous platform which
meets all our requirements for communication.

There is also one small bugfix to handle premature grandparent death
upon initial startup.  Most users are unaffected.

[1] policy: http://public-inbox.org/ - git://80x24.org/public-inbox
    an "archives first" approach to mailing lists
[2] mechanism: http://ssoma.public-inbox.org/ - git://80x24.org/ssoma
    some sort of mail archiver (using git)

* http://unicorn.bogomips.org/
* unicorn-public@bogomips.org
* git://bogomips.org/unicorn.git
* http://unicorn.bogomips.org/NEWS.atom.xml

-- 
Eric Wong

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: [ANN] unicorn 4.8.3 - the end of an era
  2014-05-07  8:05 [ANN] unicorn 4.8.3 - the end of an era Eric Wong
@ 2014-05-07  9:30 ` Jérémy Lecour
  2014-05-07  9:46   ` Eric Wong
  2014-05-07 12:08 ` Bráulio Bhavamitra
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Jérémy Lecour @ 2014-05-07  9:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eric Wong; +Cc: Liste Unicorn, unicorn-public

Hi Eric and all,

I'm sorry if I'm the dumbest guy in the room, but I absolutely don't
understand what I have to do to stay in the mailing list.

Would you mind explaining what a regular subscriber has to do to keep
receiving those emails in their inbox?

Thanks


-- 
Jérémy Lecour :
http://jeremy.wordpress.com - http://twitter.com/jlecour

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: [ANN] unicorn 4.8.3 - the end of an era
  2014-05-07  9:30 ` Jérémy Lecour
@ 2014-05-07  9:46   ` Eric Wong
  2014-05-07 10:16     ` Lin Jen-Shin (godfat)
  2014-05-07 20:33     ` [ANN] unicorn 4.8.3 - the end of an era Michael Fischer
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Eric Wong @ 2014-05-07  9:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jérémy Lecour; +Cc: Liste Unicorn, unicorn-public

Jérémy Lecour <jeremy.lecour@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Eric and all,
> 
> I'm sorry if I'm the dumbest guy in the room, but I absolutely don't
> understand what I have to do to stay in the mailing list.

Sorry about the confusion, I'll try to clarify...

> Would you mind explaining what a regular subscriber has to do to keep
> receiving those emails in their inbox?

You use ssoma[1] to to import mail into your inbox.  This is like how
slrnpull works with NNTP or getmail/fetchmail works with POP.  It's
only a one-way sync, but you can import it into an IMAP folder.

Currently there's no SMTP delivery component, but I could probably set
one up this week if there's enough demand for one.  The subscriber list
will be public, though.

[1] http://ssoma.public-inbox.org/

Taken from http://unicorn.bogomips.org/ISSUES
based on what I wrote in:
http://bogomips.org/unicorn-public/m/20140421183728.GA27047@dcvr.yhbt.net.html

	URL=git://bogomips.org/unicorn-public
	LISTNAME=unicorn

	# to initialize a maildir (this may be a new or existing maildir,
	# ssoma will not touch existing messages)
	# If you prefer mbox, use mbox:/path/to/mbox as the last argument
	# You may also use imap://$MAILSERVER/INBOX for an IMAP account
	# or imaps:// for an IMAPS account, as well.
	ssoma add $LISTNAME $URL maildir:/path/to/maildir

	# read with your favorite MUA (only using mutt as an example)
	mutt -f /path/to/maildir # (or /path/to/mbox)

	# to keep your mbox or maildir up-to-date, periodically run the following:
	ssoma sync $LISTNAME

	# your MUA may modify and delete messages from the maildir or mbox,
	# this does not affect ssoma functionality at all

	# to sync all your ssoma subscriptions
	ssoma sync

	# You may wish to sync in your cronjob
	ssoma sync --cron

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: [ANN] unicorn 4.8.3 - the end of an era
  2014-05-07  9:46   ` Eric Wong
@ 2014-05-07 10:16     ` Lin Jen-Shin (godfat)
  2014-05-07 10:52       ` Alejandro Riera
  2014-05-07 20:33     ` [ANN] unicorn 4.8.3 - the end of an era Michael Fischer
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Lin Jen-Shin (godfat) @ 2014-05-07 10:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eric Wong; +Cc: Jérémy Lecour, Liste Unicorn, unicorn-public

On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 5:46 PM, Eric Wong <e@80x24.org> wrote:
> Jérémy Lecour <jeremy.lecour@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Eric and all,
>>
>> I'm sorry if I'm the dumbest guy in the room, but I absolutely don't
>> understand what I have to do to stay in the mailing list.
>
> Sorry about the confusion, I'll try to clarify...
>
>> Would you mind explaining what a regular subscriber has to do to keep
>> receiving those emails in their inbox?
>
> You use ssoma[1] to to import mail into your inbox.  This is like how
> slrnpull works with NNTP or getmail/fetchmail works with POP.  It's
> only a one-way sync, but you can import it into an IMAP folder.
>
> Currently there's no SMTP delivery component, but I could probably set
> one up this week if there's enough demand for one.  The subscriber list
> will be public, though.
>
> [1] http://ssoma.public-inbox.org/

I guess I am too lazy/busy to dig into this, so an SMTP would be great
for me. I am also ok to be listed as a public subscriber.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: [ANN] unicorn 4.8.3 - the end of an era
  2014-05-07 10:16     ` Lin Jen-Shin (godfat)
@ 2014-05-07 10:52       ` Alejandro Riera
  2014-05-07 19:54         ` handling SMTP subscribers to public-inboxen Eric Wong
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Alejandro Riera @ 2014-05-07 10:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lin Jen-Shin (godfat)
  Cc: Eric Wong, Liste Unicorn, Jérémy Lecour, unicorn-public

> I guess I am too lazy/busy to dig into this, so an SMTP would be great
> for me. I am also ok to be listed as a public subscriber.

Same here, SMTP sounds great :)

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: [ANN] unicorn 4.8.3 - the end of an era
  2014-05-07  8:05 [ANN] unicorn 4.8.3 - the end of an era Eric Wong
  2014-05-07  9:30 ` Jérémy Lecour
@ 2014-05-07 12:08 ` Bráulio Bhavamitra
  2014-05-07 20:25   ` Xavier Noria
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Bráulio Bhavamitra @ 2014-05-07 12:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eric Wong; +Cc: Unicorn, unicorn-public

+1, pushing to ssoma when emails standards empire is very strong is
way too much...

Another mailing list in another server should be created...

regards,
bráulio

On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 5:05 AM, Eric Wong <e@80x24.org> wrote:
> Changes:
>
> This release updates documentation to reflect the migration of the
> mailing list to a new public-inbox[1] instance.  This is necessary
> due to the impending RubyForge shutdown on May 15, 2014.
>
> The public-inbox address is: unicorn-public@bogomips.org
>     (no subscription required, plain text only)
> ssoma[2] git archives: git://bogomips.org/unicorn-public
> browser-friendly archives: http://bogomips.org/unicorn-public/
>
> Using, getting help for, and contributing to unicorn will never
> require any of the following:
>
> 1) non-Free software (including SaaS)
> 2) registration or sign-in of any kind
> 3) a real identity (we accept mail from Mixmaster)
> 4) a graphical user interface
>
> Nowadays, plain-text email is the only ubiquitous platform which
> meets all our requirements for communication.
>
> There is also one small bugfix to handle premature grandparent death
> upon initial startup.  Most users are unaffected.
>
> [1] policy: http://public-inbox.org/ - git://80x24.org/public-inbox
>     an "archives first" approach to mailing lists
> [2] mechanism: http://ssoma.public-inbox.org/ - git://80x24.org/ssoma
>     some sort of mail archiver (using git)
>
> * http://unicorn.bogomips.org/
> * unicorn-public@bogomips.org
> * git://bogomips.org/unicorn.git
> * http://unicorn.bogomips.org/NEWS.atom.xml
>
> --
> Eric Wong
> __
> http://bogomips.org/unicorn-public/ - unicorn-public@bogomips.org
> please quote as little as necessary when replying



-- 
"Lute pela sua ideologia. Seja um com sua ideologia. Viva pela sua
ideologia. Morra por sua ideologia" P.R. Sarkar

EITA - Educação, Informação e Tecnologias para Autogestão
http://cirandas.net/brauliobo
http://eita.org.br

"Paramapurusha é meu pai e Parama Prakriti é minha mãe. O universo é
meu lar e todos nós somos cidadãos deste cosmo. Este universo é a
imaginação da Mente Macrocósmica, e todas as entidades estão sendo
criadas, preservadas e destruídas nas fases de extroversão e
introversão do fluxo imaginativo cósmico. No âmbito pessoal, quando
uma pessoa imagina algo em sua mente, naquele momento, essa pessoa é a
única proprietária daquilo que ela imagina, e ninguém mais. Quando um
ser humano criado mentalmente caminha por um milharal também
imaginado, a pessoa imaginada não é a propriedade desse milharal, pois
ele pertence ao indivíduo que o está imaginando. Este universo foi
criado na imaginação de Brahma, a Entidade Suprema, por isso a
propriedade deste universo é de Brahma, e não dos microcosmos que
também foram criados pela imaginação de Brahma. Nenhuma propriedade
deste mundo, mutável ou imutável, pertence a um indivíduo em
particular; tudo é o patrimônio comum de todos."
Restante do texto em
http://cirandas.net/brauliobo/blog/a-problematica-de-hoje-em-dia

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* handling SMTP subscribers to public-inboxen
  2014-05-07 10:52       ` Alejandro Riera
@ 2014-05-07 19:54         ` Eric Wong
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Eric Wong @ 2014-05-07 19:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: meta
  Cc: Lin Jen-Shin (godfat),
	Liste Unicorn, Jérémy Lecour, Alejandro Riera,
	Bráulio Bhavamitra, unicorn-public

Alejandro Riera <ariera@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Lin Jen-Shin (godfat)" <godfat@godfat.org> wrote:
> > I guess I am too lazy/busy to dig into this, so an SMTP would be great
> > for me. I am also ok to be listed as a public subscriber.
> 
> Same here, SMTP sounds great :)

Copying discussion to the meta@public-inbox.org list...

Thanks all for your response.  I'll set up something on the ssoma side
which replays messages to subscribers.  This will make it easy to
fork/migrate subscription lists to different servers.

I'll probably use VERP[1] to handle bounces.  However, most of the
normal bounce processing mechanisms (including VERP) seems to leave
users open to malicious unsubscribes.  In other words, an attacker
may fake bounce messages to take users off a list (VERP or not).
The reference documentation for VERP just makes faking bounces
trivially easy.

So I think we need to make the bounce address unguessable by the
attacker.  Perhaps using something like Crypt-VERPString[2] is
necessary?  Keep in mind somebody sniffing your plain-text SMTP traffic
will (and will always) be able to extract the bounce address; so this
only increases the difficulty level to do a malicious unsubscribe.

The secret key should be able to change when migrating between servers
(or if compromised) without being a big problem, as most bounces occur
hours/days within delivery time; not months/years afterwards.

[1] http://cr.yp.to/proto/verp.txt
[2] http://search.cpan.org/dist/Crypt-VERPString

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: [ANN] unicorn 4.8.3 - the end of an era
  2014-05-07 12:08 ` Bráulio Bhavamitra
@ 2014-05-07 20:25   ` Xavier Noria
  2014-05-07 20:34     ` Eric Wong
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Xavier Noria @ 2014-05-07 20:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: unicorn-public

What's the summary for current subscribers that use Gmail in their browser?
I have no local email these days.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: [ANN] unicorn 4.8.3 - the end of an era
  2014-05-07  9:46   ` Eric Wong
  2014-05-07 10:16     ` Lin Jen-Shin (godfat)
@ 2014-05-07 20:33     ` Michael Fischer
  2014-05-07 21:25       ` Eric Wong
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Michael Fischer @ 2014-05-07 20:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eric Wong; +Cc: Jérémy Lecour, Liste Unicorn, unicorn-public

On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 2:46 AM, Eric Wong <e@80x24.org> wrote:

> Jérémy Lecour <jeremy.lecour@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Would you mind explaining what a regular subscriber has to do to keep
> > receiving those emails in their inbox?
>
> You use ssoma[1] to to import mail into your inbox.  This is like how
> slrnpull works with NNTP or getmail/fetchmail works with POP.  It's
> only a one-way sync, but you can import it into an IMAP folder.
>
> Currently there's no SMTP delivery component, but I could probably set
> one up this week if there's enough demand for one.  The subscriber list
> will be public, though.

Is there some compelling reason why the mailing list simply cannot be
moved to another provider?  IMHO your users and fellow developers
shouldn't have to do anything other than change the submission
address.

I respect your desire to power the communication platform with free
software (and I'm sure this can still be done with Mailman or
whatever), but keep in mind the practical reality of our time, where
most of us these days are now comfortably using Webmail or or POP/IMAP
against a remote server that's not under the user's control and have
no desire to implement yet another communication conduit.

Thanks,

--Michael

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: [ANN] unicorn 4.8.3 - the end of an era
  2014-05-07 20:25   ` Xavier Noria
@ 2014-05-07 20:34     ` Eric Wong
  2014-05-07 20:37       ` Xavier Noria
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Eric Wong @ 2014-05-07 20:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Xavier Noria; +Cc: unicorn-public

Xavier Noria <fxn@hashref.com> wrote:
> What's the summary for current subscribers that use Gmail in their browser?
> I have no local email these days.

Yeah, webmail users seem to have this problem :<
As I wrote here, I'll get SMTP delivery added:
http://bogomips.org/unicorn-public/m/20140507195444.GA12686@dcvr.yhbt.net.html
That was the fallback plan anyways; but the whole thing is still designed
for ease-of-migration/forking.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: [ANN] unicorn 4.8.3 - the end of an era
  2014-05-07 20:34     ` Eric Wong
@ 2014-05-07 20:37       ` Xavier Noria
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Xavier Noria @ 2014-05-07 20:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eric Wong; +Cc: unicorn-public

On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 10:34 PM, Eric Wong <normalperson@yhbt.net> wrote:

Xavier Noria <fxn@hashref.com> wrote:
> > What's the summary for current subscribers that use Gmail in their
> browser?
> > I have no local email these days.
>
> Yeah, webmail users seem to have this problem :<
> As I wrote here, I'll get SMTP delivery added:
>
> http://bogomips.org/unicorn-public/m/20140507195444.GA12686@dcvr.yhbt.net.html
> That was the fallback plan anyways; but the whole thing is still designed
> for ease-of-migration/forking.
>

 Awesome, thanks Eric.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

* Re: [ANN] unicorn 4.8.3 - the end of an era
  2014-05-07 20:33     ` [ANN] unicorn 4.8.3 - the end of an era Michael Fischer
@ 2014-05-07 21:25       ` Eric Wong
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Eric Wong @ 2014-05-07 21:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Fischer
  Cc: Eric Wong, Jérémy Lecour, Liste Unicorn, unicorn-public

Michael Fischer <mfischer@zendesk.com> wrote:
> Is there some compelling reason why the mailing list simply cannot be
> moved to another provider?  IMHO your users and fellow developers
> shouldn't have to do anything other than change the submission
> address.

We would need to migrate again if/when that provider goes dead or
service starts deteriorating.  Ease-of-migration and being forkable
again in the future was the top priority.

If I'm hit by a bus or start allowing too much spam, it should be
trivially easy to migrate the project[1] and all its archives and
infrastructure.

> I respect your desire to power the communication platform with free
> software (and I'm sure this can still be done with Mailman or
> whatever), but keep in mind the practical reality of our time, where
> most of us these days are now comfortably using Webmail or or POP/IMAP
> against a remote server that's not under the user's control and have
> no desire to implement yet another communication conduit.

I will probably take the addresses of active subscribers who've posted
here[2] imported into the new delivery system, even.

It would be great to be able to make the list of ML subscribers public,
too, to ensure forkability.  I'm not sure how the lurkers will react to
that, though...


[1] of course, whoever takes over may not be a Free Software zealot
    like myself.
[2] those addresses are already public, but lurkers will probably
    have to resubscribe (or use ssoma or the Atom feed).

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2014-05-07 21:25 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 12+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2014-05-07  8:05 [ANN] unicorn 4.8.3 - the end of an era Eric Wong
2014-05-07  9:30 ` Jérémy Lecour
2014-05-07  9:46   ` Eric Wong
2014-05-07 10:16     ` Lin Jen-Shin (godfat)
2014-05-07 10:52       ` Alejandro Riera
2014-05-07 19:54         ` handling SMTP subscribers to public-inboxen Eric Wong
2014-05-07 20:33     ` [ANN] unicorn 4.8.3 - the end of an era Michael Fischer
2014-05-07 21:25       ` Eric Wong
2014-05-07 12:08 ` Bráulio Bhavamitra
2014-05-07 20:25   ` Xavier Noria
2014-05-07 20:34     ` Eric Wong
2014-05-07 20:37       ` Xavier Noria

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